Is an Engineering Management program gateway into product?
Afreen Ahmed, an Duke MEM grad student answers that for us
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Hello Hello 👋
Welcome back to another edition of my newsletter! In this post, I chat with Afreen, who is a grad student at Duke and a reader/subscriber of this newsletter. She recently landed an internship with Sezzle, a Buy Now, Pay Later FinTech solution based out of the US. I was delighted to see her job update on LinkedIn and immediately reached out to her to share her experience of landing the product internship with the Pragmatism community.
She gives an overview of the Engineering Management program at the Duke, her thought process on joining the program, and her favorite coursework. She also shares great insights on writing resume, preparing for the interviews, tackling challenges during the interview process, and ultimately cracking the interviews.
Let’s jump right in!
Could you introduce yourself to the readers?
I’m Afreen, a Product Management Intern at Sezzle! I am pursuing a Master’s in Engineering Management from Duke University. I started in product right after my undergraduate in Computer Engineering from San Francisco State University. Currently, I am developing business acumen competency to excel as a product manager and looking forward to the opportunities ahead 😁
What has been your journey prior to Duke? How did you get interested in product management?
🎓 Bachelor's Degree: I started my bachelor's in Computer Engineering at San Francisco State University, and my inclination was more towards software than hardware. I got various opportunities to work on front-end development during internships and projects throughout my undergrad. Even though I enjoyed coding and design, reflecting my creative side, I couldn't imagine pursuing a career in software engineering, as my skill set and interest aligned in roles at the intersection of business and technology.
🤹🏼♀️ Why product management: As suggested by everyone, I started to network with industry professionals across various industries and roles to learn about their day-to-day workflow. I spent hours exploring many business functions such as sales engineering, customer success, and many more. At that time, product management seemed like a right fit for me because it required stakeholder management and business acumen to understand the WHY and WHAT of product and technology to drive the HOW.
👩🏻💻 Job experience: During my last semester, I started working as a product manager at Cox Communications on the Edge Computing product, a new venture within Cox. I worked on the GTM strategy, partnerships, sales, and customer acquisition. Even though many skills can be acquired to excel as a product manager at the job itself, I felt I lacked the business acumen required to drive the product. After extensive research, I took a step back and decided to start my next chapter at Duke University.
How and why did you pick Duke? What were the other programs you considered given your career goal(s)?
👩🏻🎓 Maters's Degree: I was amidst my job at Cox when I started researching master's programs and schools that aligned with my interest and career goals. Master's in engineering management and Master of Science in Technology Management (MSTM) both were a perfect fit. Master's in engineering management at Duke University prepares you to be a proficient leader and look at technology through a business lens with a management curriculum (High-tech + Software), marketing, design thinking, and finance.
My approach was very targeted, and I only applied to three schools- Dartmouth, Duke, and the University of Illinois. I got admits from all three, but Duke checked all the boxes with its prestige, industry-relevant curriculum focused on excelling in product management, and a plethora of opportunities outside the classroom. Duke offers exposure to entrepreneurship with its student founders program, I&E certification, Professional development committee that currently consists of eight student clubs from consulting finance to product management. The list goes on, but you get my point.
Go, Duke 💙
What are the favorite courses you have taken so far? In hindsight, how do you think the MEM program helped you acquire the product skills?
It's my second semester, and so far, I have taken marketing, finance, Intellectual Property, Business Law & Entrepreneurship, product management, and software business management. Hands down, marketing and software business management are my favorite courses.
📣 Marketing: Marketing will be among the top three best courses I have taken throughout my academic career—shoutout to Prof. Tony O'Driscoll for making this course extraordinarily interactive and engaging. As an engineer, it was not an easy course for me since it required me to shift my system two thinking to system one. I recommend you to learn about this topic (Google 😉). It allowed me to work on various case studies in a team, present our recommendations, and develop a marketing plan. I will never forget the 5C's (Customer, Context, Company, Competition, and Complementary) and 4P's (Product, Place, Price, Promotion) in my life. 😜
⚙️ Software Business Management: I am currently taking SBM, and I must say the course provides the relevant tools for you to excel as a product manager in the SaaS industry. This course will equip you to develop and understand portfolio strategy, monetization models, pricing, development, and continuous delivery of software organizations. My team and I are currently working on developing a business model canvas for a new product in the banking sector.
The courses including finance, business law, design thinking, and product management will help build a foundation and prepare me to excel in taking ownership of the product. These courses will be of tremendous help while collaborating with the web of stakeholders (engineering, UX/UI, finance, and legal), management, and business when they are heaving down on the product managers to yield results.
I see that you were the president of the PM club. How did that help you? What activities did you do as part of the PM club?
👩🏻💼 Leadership positions: I love taking part in extra-curricular activities, volunteering, and leadership positions outside the classroom. It allows me to work with students, hone my leadership and collaboration skills, and, lastly, it's enjoyable.
Leadership positions or extra-curricular involvement builds your work experience portfolio similar to class projects. It reflects on your resume that you are interested in working in teams, gaining experience beyond the classroom setting, and being passionate about taking that extra mile. Since leadership is the top skill that recruiters are looking for, especially in the product space, the president position has tremendously helped me communicate my skills in the interview and during my day-to-day job.
Duke MEMPDC PM Club: The Club's mission is to cultivate students' interest in Product Management by providing a resourceful platform to engage, develop, and promote the necessary skills while establishing a tight-knit community.
🎫 Events: We have had product workshops series around product teardown, podcasts with MEM alum, and product sessions with speakers from Amazon, Paypal, and other tech companies. This semester the focus is to help students with interview and get summer internships. We are conducting product interview workshops by collaborating with Kenton Kivestu from Rocket Blocks, a networking fair, and will host an end-of-semester product social in March.
🎙️Podcast: PM Club members are also actively findings ways to engage with industry professionals and bring value to the students interested in product management. I have had the opportunity to conduct two podcasts with Meta and Whatsapp's product managers. If you are interested, give it a listen:
Let’s dive into your internship search: How did you pick companies to apply for? What did your application process look like?
🔎 Internship search strategy: I started networking with professionals across SaaS, FinTech, and entertainment industries in early September. During the fall semester, I focused on applying for both summer and spring internship positions. Since not many companies offer spring internships, I was mainly applying to all of the positions that aligned with the industry I was interested in working. It’s important to realize that one strategy doesn’t work for all. Understand your background, current position, and the future role you want to attain and devise a plan to reach there. Make sure to consult your mentors, peers, and professors to take continuous advice and keep improving.
📋 Application Process: For most internships, I either applied online directly via Handshake, LinkedIn, or the Company website. Wonsulting is a great platform to learn about strategies from job search, resume, and interview preparation.
In hindsight, what do you think worked in your resume? What was the secret sauce?
Secret Sauce? 📖 Story Telling: Making sure that your resume tells a story- what I mean by that? If you want to break into product management, make sure your resume highlights that you are actively putting efforts to learn/gain skills by either working on industry projects, taking relevant coursework, leadership positions, or even developing a product.
📄 My resume: I think my previous experience as a product manager, part-time job as a brand ambassador for Project Discover at the innovation co-lab, and the leadership position in the PM Club worked well to show my interest and passion for product management. I believe I can still improve upon it a lot but again it’s a continuous process and you will never feel that your resume is perfect for one role, one company, or one industry.
What did your interview preparation look like and what helped you crack the interviews?
🔎 My interview preparation involved three steps:
Understanding the role, the company, and its product portfolio: Before getting on a call with the recruiter or hiring manager, I made sure to thoroughly research the role, the company, and the latest news articles. I can vouch for going an extra mile by exploring the company's latest news, initiatives, or even values, and highlighting those in the answers will set you apart from generic answers.
Reading the literature: I mainly focused on going through the following books for the PM interviews - Cracking the PM Interview, Decode and Conquer, Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products, and Lean Analytics: Use Data to Build a Better Startup Faster a fantastic read to understand the KPI for various business.
Preparing for the interviews: It is crucial to nail down the behavioral questions since the interviewers focus heavily on them. Learn to tell your story when it comes to questions like tell me about yourself.
🔨 Cracking the interview: I started to excel in the interview, where it seemed like I was having a conversation with the hiring manager rather than only answering the questions. Prepare for thoughtful questions that genuinely express your interest in the company and the role. It is evidently noticeable to the interviewer that you are asking basic questions because you are expected to do so. Lastly, Youtube is a fantastic resource to check out for practicing interview questions. I watched several PM mock interviews on Rocket Blocks and Exponent, and it was beneficial.
Did you prepare or do anything different to interview with FinTech companies? Did FinTech companies look for any additional product skills?
FinTech companies are not necessarily looking for any additional skills, but a previous background in a similar industry can be helpful. Since I didn't have experience in FinTech, I invested my time heavily to learn about the company, its product offerings, and the role. Understanding these three together can set you apart from other interviewees. Lastly, I checked out the company's post on social media, news, and articles before the interview. Having a couple of talking points reflects that you are genuinely interested in the role, the company's mission, and its products.
What was the most challenging thing in the entire hiring process? How did you overcome it?
The two most challenging aspects of the entire hiring process for me were: not getting the call from the interviewer and rejection in the final interview rounds.
I got my resume reviewed a couple of times by professors, career coaches, and mentors to gain different perspectives. Tailoring my resume to reflect 80% of the job responsibilities helped tremendously. Even though I couldn’t really change my experience, I highlighted responsibilities as per the role and company.
Getting rejected is extremely demotivating since, by this time, you have already rigorously and meticulously prepared for various interviews and invested plenty of time. Though it was discouraging, I continued putting in the same efforts for every interview. All I would say is Practice, Practice, and Practice! 🎯
As someone who is trying to break into product fresh out of school, what would be your top 3 recommendations for them?
Make sure you understand the role and have a clear vision of what you are looking forward to gaining from the role and industry. Start applying to positions as early as possible. I can’t stress this enough, but you miss so many opportunities because you are late in the application cycle.
Reach out to people in the companies you want to work in or are interested in learning about, take advantage of your school alumni network. Don’t restrict to only product managers; reach out to anyone who works closely with them, for example, product marketing managers. You will be surprised how many people are willing to help you connect to either the recruiter or the right stakeholder.
Prepare, prepare and prepare. Make sure to highlight what’s unique about your experiences and skills in both the resume and interview. Many resources are available from books, newsletters, and interview preparation platforms. I consider applying for jobs as a marathon and not a sprint. You have to keep going until you find the right fit for yourself as you would for your product in the market 😊
I hope you enjoyed reading this and found it insightful💡
Questions? Just reply to this email and ask! Is there anything that I can help with regarding your job/internship search? I’ll be more than happy to write on the topic :)
See you all next week,
Tanay 👋